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whiska

 


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Post subject: Advocate.com article -- Temporary Tatu Reply with quote
Disclaimer: Whiska does not support or endorse the ideas presented in this article (in other words, don't kill the messenger, I'm only posting news Wink)

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/895_6/895_6_tatu.asp

Temporary Tatu
Are the hot young Russian singers a step forward for lesbian visibility, or
is their sexuality just a gimmick?

By Larry Flick


From The Advocate, August 19, 2003

It?s easy to liken the queer-charged notoriety buzzing around the Russian female duo
Tatu to the hubbub that surrounded Frankie Goes to Hollywood in the ?80s. Both laced
cheeky homocentric imagery into otherwise harmless, if wildly infectious, pop music
masterminded by ?ber-producer Trevor Horn. Both enjoyed massive worldwide
success, and both were censored by Britain?s BBC.

There?s just one glaring difference: Frankie Goes to Hollywood featured two members
who were openly gay long before the band?s formation. Julia Volkova and Lena Katina,
the teenage women of Tatu, have been playing a game of ?maybe we are, maybe we
aren?t? with the media.

And therein lies the problem?a big one. The rhetoric cranked out by the act?s
marketing machine tells us that the lesbian imagery that underscores the hit single ?All the
Things She Said? is a warm embrace of homosexuality and an acknowledgement of our
collective. Allegedly, it?s all designed to foster empathy and open-minded acceptance.

Sounds good, doesn?t it? Indeed, ?All the Things She Said? is an audacious pop anthem,
rife with aggressive, up-yours attitude. There?s just one thing missing?authenticity. The
history of Tatu leaves plenty of room for doubt.

The act was born in 1999, coming from the mind of Ivan Shapovalov, a Russian
filmmaker and former psychologist and advertising executive. Volkova and Katina, then
both 14 years of age, were chosen from an audition pool of approximately 500 young
hopefuls. From there, Volkova and Katina were rushed into a studio to record the
controversial single ?Ya Soshla S Uma? (?I?ve Lost My Mind?). The song told of a
young girl?s excitement and emotional turmoil at being in love with another girl. The track
was complemented by a video clip of the singers in schoolgirl outfits kissing in the rain.
After garnering tons of media coverage and successful sales in Russia, the song was
rewritten into the English-language ?All the Things She Said? and featured on the album
200 km/h in the Wrong Lane.

An entr?e into the European music scene followed in 2002, with ?All the Things She
Said? hitting number 1 on the U.K. singles chart after two weeks while also topping
several other international charts and peaking in the U.S. top 20. A mostly
English-language version of 200 km/h went out to U.S. record stores in late 2002.

With Tatu?s existence being the source of such careful calculation, it?s difficult not to
second-guess the duo?s queer integrity. Volkova and Katina themselves have often given
vague, even contradictory answers on the topic of their sexuality. Their official Web site
calls their relationship ?something more than just friendship towards each other.? Last
year the singers were photographed in a Moscow nightclub with men who, as they first
admitted to the U.K. press, were their boyfriends. They later said the men were
bodyguards.

Even Shapovalov has been less than committal about the act?s sexual orientation. When
quizzed directly in Billboard last year, he said, ?It?s all about the maximalistic
relationships of youth when the boundaries between friendship and love get blurred,
driven by protest and the conflict of generations.?

In the end, the truth of Volkova and Katina?s sexuality is secondary to the marketing
manipulation that accompanies them. If we?re to believe that they?re lesbians, then why
such vagueness? And why must Tatu be served to the public as underage, porn-quality
Lolitas? What are they really selling? With no clear answers, it all feels like a big,
mechanical game. And it?s a game that leaves queer listeners?particularly kids starving
for empathetic music and artists?on the losing end.

Flick covers pop music for The Advocate.
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Last edited by whiska on Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
PostMon Jul 21, 2003 10:58 pm
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Flare

 

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sigh
"If we?re to believe that they?re lesbians, then why
such vagueness?" maybe its because people keep asking them and its irritating also why does it matter so much just be glad for what there doing to help people
PostMon Jul 21, 2003 11:12 pm
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interesting...
i think ppl need affirmation in labeling them to be one thing or another, so that their "orientation" coincides with the message that they are conveying. it's not enough that they have a close if not intimate relationship, people want to think of them as gay because it avoids the possibility of them liking, men, which throws the entire message for a loop. its not enough that they are who they are, people want to forever label them as that. otherwise they try to throw slander and say they are bi or straight so the message is weakened by the ambiguity, that doesn't even matter. at least not to me.
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PostMon Jul 21, 2003 11:43 pm
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you know whats really pathetic?if a person is hiding he/she is gay/lesbian,these journalists are looking for the facts that they are gay/lesbians.but when people like tatu say that they are lesbians,journalists will say its just an "act".How stupid can they get?! Rolleyes
im getting sick of this issues thats been going around over and over again with the same questions if "are they really lesbians or just an act?" BS!
PostTue Jul 22, 2003 4:06 am
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agree Lux

somehow people need what it called label. labelize. which side are they on? gay, hetero or what? and we are livin in a most-community-think. lucky media.

tATu is tATu. and media want them to be like what the most mass would think bout them.

still, i guess. the news will be predictable and their article bout tATu will live like a carrousel. o my ..
PostTue Jul 22, 2003 4:20 am
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(thank you for posting this, Whiska Wink )

I think the media is the one that serves them to the public as "underage, porn-quality Lolitas" ...this writer is no exception and certainly isn't helping to alleviate that misconception either. To me, it's sad that this article tries to sound smart, but falls miserably short from it...

I also don't agree with how the writer is suggesting that we can't believe in t.A.T.u.'s relationship because of "such vagueness." -- It is a logical fallacy to assume that since something has not been proven true, it must then be false. I think it is good to keep in mind:

"A lack of proof is not proof."
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PostTue Jul 22, 2003 4:24 am
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Yeah That

I agree with YRX.....

And why does everything have to be labelled........ what do they want them to do walk around with labels saying well "today I'm lesbian" or "today I'm bi" or "today I'm straight" or "today I'm skew"..............

(Skew = don't know what I am today Rolleyes )
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Last edited by Slippy on Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total
PostTue Jul 22, 2003 5:21 am
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alex2107

 


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The media by its very nature can not stand ambiguity. It is their nature to find answers and it must irritate the shit out of them that they can not seem to answer this seemingly simple question: are the girls really lesbians?

For the rest of us, normal people, we don't need to answer this question - we don't care, or if we do, it is not the central reason we like or dislike t.A.T.u.

The other thing is that people are always reading into things where no things exist. This used to bother me in English class more than anything! Some guy writes a story, it becomes a classic and then it is analysed to death, line by line. The author is credited with all these brilliant insights when he probably just wrote a story from the heart.

To me the t.A.T.u. message is crystal clear: be yourself and love whomever you want to. It's really not that difficult is it???


alex
PostTue Jul 22, 2003 6:32 am
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I'm gonna copy my reply I posted on tatysite concerning this article:

Sorry but I have to be honest on this article: it's crap! Obviously the writer is not aware how tATu have helped young people to come out and make same-sex r/ships more visible and present in the public.

I'm definitely not the only one who can proove this by the large number of posts from young girls starting at about 14 upwards who found the strength to do what they always wanted to do or at least feel more comfortable with themselves.

I'm male and straight and therefore someone could come up telling me that this is making me kinda blind for the problem but my evidence is the large number of posts on the official german tATu-board in the "Gay/Lesbian"-section and the "Contact"-section.
The message is successfull and that's all that counts to me. I feel respect for tATu especially because of this point. They have been target for homophobics and had to listen to a lot of crap like a priest telling them what they are and what they're gonna end up - wtf is wrong with some people not to get that the message is a positive one.
If you don't like a pic then don't look at it, I'm not much into the so called lolita-pics either but there are enough other ones.

I'm kinda used to homophobic bashing from some articles but what really stuns me is the one-dimensional view from some hyper-ideological ones who are even worse than those bloody stupid homophobics when it comes to tATu.
I hope no one takes offense but such articles make me angry.

@whiska Thanks for taking your time and posting the article.
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I think a statement has been made, everything else is pretty much irrelevant. One cannot question this fact because of the intentions underlying it or the circumstances surrounding it. Whether gay/bi/straight/confused/questioning/marketing, they have made a statement. The results are there, people have just become too caught up in the firestorm following it. I don't think tatu has left gay youths wanting either. The song touches you as someone who is not straight in a way that no other hetero-intentioned song ever will. The girls kissing while at the same time saying "fuck you" to whoever doubts or slanders them gives someone who is not straight a voice by which they can hang on to and help oneself have strength to carry on this message. What immediate impact has tatu had on gay youths? They have given this next generation an aggressive stance against their opposers, how many other pop groups have had this kind of effect on such an oppressed group of people?
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PostTue Jul 22, 2003 9:37 am
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I agree with people's opinions in here... very well put by alex2107, Yulia_r0xx and Rob. Tatu have had their lives threatened when homophobic idiots have thrown things at them and tried to attack the girls at their concerts; not to mention the various death threats. Tatu have for sure risked and done much more to open up people's minds than this stupid smug f*ck Larry Flick.

Thank you whiska for the article! Smile
PostTue Jul 22, 2003 11:11 am
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I agree with what other people have written (but here's my Two Cents anyway). Tatu have been prepared to stand up to homophobia and even risked physical attacks because of it. That takes courage. They clearly have been an inspiration to many young people, even though Flick is angry with them for not proving that they are lesbians.

whiska wrote:
Anyone who bothered to look a little deeper would see that the ambiguity is the whole point. Tatu was never meant to be a politically correct lesbian grrl group, nor was it cynically created to appeal to pervy old men. After reading Ivan's comments in the Face UK, I believe that Tatu's message may be as simple as "embrace love, reject fear" That's a universal message--it doesn't have a label or a sexuality.


Yeah That

The message is also "it doesn't matter what your (or our) sexuality is." The ambiguity may even be to make the point that everybody does care about people's sexuality, but they shouldn't.
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PostTue Jul 22, 2003 12:01 pm
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Post subject: IT MAKES ME SOO FREAKIN' MAD! Reply with quote
OKAY! DON'T GET MAD AT ME FOR USING BAD LANGUAGE~

IM SO FUCKEN TIRED OF PEOPLE ALWAYS SAYING OH ARE THEY LESBIAN OR DO THEY PRETEND TO BE LESBIANS TO SELL CDS!!! WELL MOTHER FUCKERS....WHO GIVES A FUCK...... t.A.T.u are just two girls having fun doing what they like to do... THEY ARE PERFORMERZ.. I LIKE t.A.T.u becuase of the music and the're unique voices....I didnt buy their albums because I thought they were lesbian Im gay it doesnt do anything for me....I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD JUST STOP WRITING ARTICLES about their sexuality and focus more on the music.....
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PostTue Jul 22, 2003 3:43 pm
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o | G | A | g

 



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you are obviously letting the tabloid articles get to you. Just ignore it.
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From all the interviews I have seen and all that jazz, they seem to me to be bisexuals. But hey that's just what I think. The only one's who know for real is Yulia and Lena! Wave
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agree. *puff puff* tatu for life!! Thumb
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PostTue Jul 22, 2003 4:41 pm
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BlahBlah...tabloids
PostTue Jul 22, 2003 5:52 pm
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Flare, Yulia-Roxx, Breezay, Rob, and Whiska... Yeah That
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Breezay, breezay, breezay....so wise. Once again I agree with everything you said, and so well put.

The message is out there. It has helped people lead a more open life. Whether the image is fake or not, it has literally changed people's lives. Whatever you think about Tatu, you cannot deny them.

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PostTue Jul 22, 2003 8:21 pm
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True! So true! Thumb
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PostTue Jul 22, 2003 9:27 pm
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you know what i think? I think the boyfreinds are a front! there are so many contries where if two lesbians released a single they would be banned straight away (cough *bastards at BBC* cough) that the supposed 'boyfreinds' are there to make people believe that the homosexual image is rubbish and that they're really straight with boyfreinds...i believe they are gay, and that the boyfreinds are there simply to allow the to release singles without being banned. It's a harsh world we live in, but in the music buisness image is a big section and i believe that if they were only portrayed as being gay, their songs would be banned but they're played because people now believe they're straight. Sorry it's a bit of an essay lol but that's my opinion...no one seems to have thought from that side before.....
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PostWed Jul 23, 2003 11:20 am
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@tatugal That's an interesting thought. Never looked at it from this side but actually it makes sense.
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@ t.A.T.u._freak, iamxtra & tatugal :
There is the Are they lesbians? to discuss that subject (but I understand you don’t want to read the whole thread Wink). (And something similar has been uttered before.)

It’s been a long time since I have posted something against the opinion of a whole thread, but I am going to risk it again, rather than Yeah thatting or trying to find another flaw in the article that everyone else missed.

First of all I disagree with the authors opinion on t.A.T.u., because I think that, all things considered, the world is in general a better place than it would be without the band. But with such a controversial group it is normal that they will get good press and bad press and it is normal that on a t.A.T.u. forum the negative press is bashed and the positive is applauded. But that doesn’t mean the latter is right.
The author is fond of the band Frankie Goes to Hollywood because they were really homosexual and is bothered that t.A.T.u. apparently only shows a gay image to make money. Of course, the article covers only a small part of t.A.T.u (and left out some other topics on which the band could be criticized), but in that context the author asks valid questions that you can also find in the already mentioned thread. I only don’t understand his last 2 sentences : “With no clear answers, it all feels like a big, mechanical game. And it's a game that leaves queer listeners -particularly kids starving for empathetic music and artists - on the losing end.”

You are probably not interested in all I agree and disagree with on what has been posted, so I’ll only discuss these :

Alex2107 wrote:
The media by its very nature can not stand ambiguity. It is their nature to find answers and it must irritate the shit out of them that they can not seem to answer this seemingly simple question: are the girls really lesbians?

I think the media is very fond of anything they can report about. The ambiguity about t.A.T.u.’s sexual orientation and all the rumours give them just that. They can report about the subject “Are they lesbians” because the public is interested in it, even if there are people who it irritates. Proof is how much it is discussed on this forum. Since t.A.T.u. enjoys attention (“all press is good press”) they and the press live as it ware in symbiosis. But their refusal to provide information can irritate the press, like in Japan the denial of information on the cancelled appearances was not appreciated. That effect is probably also a bit present with the lesbian issue.

Whiska wrote:
Tatu was never meant to be a politically correct lesbian grrl group, nor was it cynically created to appeal to pervy old men.

Whether meant to be or not, politically incorrect is politically incorrect. I vaguely remember some not recent interviews where Ivan referred to “dirty old men” as potential “fans”. But I don’t think they would be a good target group, because I don’t see old men promoting t.A.T.u. or buying stuff about them. Otherwise, they probably would be targeted.

Don’t forget people that the purpose of t.A.T.u is to make as much money as possible and not to help the acceptance of homosexuals. Claims like “It doesn’t matter who you love, he important thing is to love and be loved, it doesn’t matter with who… even if it’s with a dog.” may come from their hearts, but if not it doesn’t take a genius to know that that would be good for their image. So that they want to spread a positive message to the gay community is part of their image, whether fake or not.

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PostWed Jul 23, 2003 6:05 pm
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Post subject: Re: article Reply with quote
tatugal wrote:
you know what i think? I think the boyfreinds are a front! there are so many contries where if two lesbians released a single they would be banned straight away (cough *bastards at BBC* cough) that the supposed 'boyfreinds' are there to make people believe that the homosexual image is rubbish and that they're really straight with boyfreinds...i believe they are gay, and that the boyfreinds are there simply to allow the to release singles without being banned. It's a harsh world we live in, but in the music buisness image is a big section and i believe that if they were only portrayed as being gay, their songs would be banned but they're played because people now believe they're straight. Sorry it's a bit of an essay lol but that's my opinion...no one seems to have thought from that side before.....


Sorry, tatugal. whiska is too modest to say, but she proposed a similar
theory (we call it the double bluff theory) on the "Are they lesbians?" thread several weeks ago. whiska argued that the reason for the double bluff could be to protect themselves in Russia.

There are lots of openly gay artists who haven't had any difficulty with being banned. For instance Elton John, k.d. lang, Morrissey, Michael Stipe.

Tatu's problems in Britain weren't about the lesbianism, they were about teenage lesbianism in short skirts and people worrying that it would appeal to paedophiles because the country has gone mad about paedophilia. The government is currently proposing a law that will make it a crime for anyone to even kiss someone under the age of 16. Rolleyes They say they are going to be selective about prosecuting people. Well, they'd have to be!
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PostWed Jul 23, 2003 6:06 pm
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admit it or not,they are good singers.everyone must face that fact.it really is sad that being lesbians singers is such a big deal. is this all they can write about tatu? or maybe they are just running out of stories to write, so here they are again with same old question "are they lesbians?"really,this is getting boring.

Thanks whiska for posting.
PostWed Jul 23, 2003 7:52 pm
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I dont care!!!! WEll I do...but they are really making me sick...the last line is the articale...well, that was put in there so the writer could get a slap on the back from his boss on how 'insightiful and creative' that was. I know because I do the same stuff Grin ...but anyway I thought that was the stupidist thing I've read in a while....

HOw am I being hurt? All of their fans know by now that there is that big if facter, but its more of what they are doing for us, then doing to us. All though if indeed they are straight (which I doubt, not because I'm wishiful but because they enjoy it so much lol) Then they are sending a message to straight 'everybody' that same sex love is a phase....but if you dont pay attention to that!!!! THey are doing something good.....

somebody had a theory that the boyfriends are a front....those are their boyfriends, sometimes they feel like a nut....leave them alone.....stop searching so hard. YOur just as bad as the Media with the they 'arent'...with your they 'are'.....and this is how they do it....just drop it. You dont want to look like the biggest ass in the world when this all ends and Volkova and Lena write a tell all book lIke GerI Halliwell and Scary Spice... just support them dont make excuses....ok...I'm done

lates
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[size=9]It's really amazing that this two girls makes us believe that they're lesbians...but maybe people just make another gossip to them Confused
But it makes me think, why they still dont finish there taping of their new video if there is no wrong goin on?!!!... Confused And why they still dont see each other when they have a vacation until now??? Bash Im just confused.. And I feel there is something big problem goin on!!!! Mad Mad Mad


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Thoralin wrote:

Don’t forget people that the purpose of t.A.T.u is to make as much money as possible and not to help the acceptance of homosexuals. Claims like “It doesn’t matter who you love, he important thing is to love and be loved, it doesn’t matter with who… even if it’s with a dog.” may come from their hearts, but if not it doesn’t take a genius to know that that would be good for their image. So that they want to spread a positive message to the gay community is part of their image, whether fake or not.


Had Tatu's purpose been to make as much money as possible, the management decisions would have been completely different - especially, there wouldn't have been all the cancelled promo activities. Take the example of Eurovision, Tatu went with a completely atypical song to Eurovision. I could probabably go on and on with this, but I'll stop here. I do agree that Tatu's direct aim might not be to help the acceptance of homosexuals, but the results of their actions seem to have had some desired effect to open up people's minds with regards to sexuality in any case.
PostThu Jul 24, 2003 4:25 am
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Rob

 


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@Scandrew _Skaterboy
No offense intended but your post looks like you're still hanging on to those rumours set by a russian tabloid. Free your mind and forget that crap. Wink
As xena pointed out so nicely they're back on track and I as well don't see why them having 10 days apart from each other should be wrong, indeed I think it's necessary.

By the way it was kinda fascinating to see that especially people who were/are not much into gays and gay-rights were jumping rather quickly on the "paedophily-train" - just an observation I made when reading the papers at that point of time.

And of course tATu are a music-group and that means they're making money but it would do some good to this world if more groups were having a positive and useful message instead of coming up with a new underwear-line.
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PostThu Jul 24, 2003 12:24 pm
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eizen

 


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lol a new underwear line only problem is underwear lines make money in fact more money then selling one cd
PostThu Jul 24, 2003 11:24 pm
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Post subject: Really?! Reply with quote
I've seen a lot of things done by the industry but I have to admit this is pretty much the worst I've ever seen.

I can't believe that people actually accept that a rock band that's going to influence a whole generation of youg people comes out and basically shows that messing around with your sexual identity at 16 or 17 really isn't a serious thing.I have a really hard time understanding how a record lable could be so greedy as to think it's a good thing to mess with kids heads like this. Doesn't someone understand that playing at being gai or lesbian when your that young, because someone thinks it's fun, can seriously mess you up for the rest of your like.

If the band is serious about music and themselfs, don't they understand that the industry is just using them by dressing them as schoolgirls and urging them to make out on stage to sell sex to borderline pedofiles and hormone filled teanage boys. You actually think posting pictures and videos of 2 girls kissing and groping eachother grabs the attention of music listeners.

And everyone's freaking OKAY with that!!!???
What the hell is wrong with everybody!?
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 10:41 am
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Post subject: Re: Really?! Reply with quote
beaner1111 wrote:
I've seen a lot of things done by the industry but I have to admit this is pretty much the worst I've ever seen.

I can't believe that people actually accept that a rock band that's going to influence a whole generation of youg people comes out and basically shows that messing around with your sexual identity at 16 or 17 really isn't a serious thing.I have a really hard time understanding how a record lable could be so greedy as to think it's a good thing to mess with kids heads like this. Doesn't someone understand that playing at being gai or lesbian when your that young, because someone thinks it's fun, can seriously mess you up for the rest of your like.

If the band is serious about music and themselfs, don't they understand that the industry is just using them by dressing them as schoolgirls and urging them to make out on stage to sell sex to borderline pedofiles and hormone filled teanage boys. You actually think posting pictures and videos of 2 girls kissing and groping eachother grabs the attention of music listeners.

And everyone's freaking OKAY with that!!!???
What the hell is wrong with everybody!?


This is quite presuptious. You automaticaly asume that Tatu is all about the money and greed, meant to stir up sexual senses of teenage boys. Maybe your opinios would change if you'd see things less superficialy then that.

Presuming weather tatu are real or fake is everyone's own business, but there are some facts that you can't overlook: whatever they might be tatu are NOT just about sex (god forbid paedophilia). People who see them like this must be real narrow-minded. There is so much behind that basic level of two girls who love eachother. You just have to know where to look for it.

And their fans are not mostly teenage boys (for something like this Ivan should choose two completely different girls)... First of all there are many teenage girl fans who adore them simply as stars they are - not much to do with the sexual content of the band. But as a matter of fact I think Tatu have also a very established non teen fan base (at least compared to other "pop" bands - that's right, they're a POP band, not a rock band as you claim)...and I think that they see them as all the things you fail them to see - as a message of love, tolerace and respect to differences in people, but also as a wonderful love story.

I seriously doubt it will mess up the kids if they see two girls kissing. There are many worse things on TV and in our society that can mess them up A LOT more then that. But that's just a fist in the air in the land of hypocracy isn't it? Wink
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 11:47 am
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Post subject: Re: IT MAKES ME SOO FREAKIN' MAD! Reply with quote
Tatupop wrote:
OKAY! DON'T GET MAD AT ME FOR USING BAD LANGUAGE~

IM SO FUCKEN TIRED OF PEOPLE ALWAYS SAYING OH ARE THEY LESBIAN OR DO THEY PRETEND TO BE LESBIANS TO SELL CDS!!! WELL MOTHER FUCKERS....WHO GIVES A FUCK...... t.A.T.u are just two girls having fun doing what they like to do... THEY ARE PERFORMERZ.. I LIKE t.A.T.u becuase of the music and the're unique voices....I didnt buy their albums because I thought they were lesbian Im gay it doesnt do anything for me....I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD JUST STOP WRITING ARTICLES about their sexuality and focus more on the music.....


Tatupop I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

pop music is all about enjoy your idols, their music and image, and that's all Rock
that's my Two Cents on the this issue ^_^
PostMon Jul 28, 2003 2:21 pm
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Post subject: OK...here goes Reply with quote
<In the end, the truth of Volkova and Katina?s sexuality is secondary to the marketing
manipulation that accompanies them. If we?re to believe that they?re lesbians, then why
such vagueness? >
I can understand WHY they are asking this question. I dont think anyone in this forum is aware of the fact that we in the gay/lesbian community have been lied to before..and that's why the gay/lesbian press is so cynical about TATU. And he's right. The truth of Lena and Yulia's sexuality IS secondary to the marketing...and that's a mistake on Ivan's part, IMO.I have been saying for a long time that TATU needs to get visible in the gay/lesbian community. That means performing at Gay pride festivals, shipping copies of 200 KMH In The Wrong Zone to gay/lesbian nightclubs, etc. Hell, get those girls a rainbow flag and have them pose with it.
Like it or not, the gay/lesbian community is well known for it's loyalty to performers who are loyal (AND honest) to us. Bette Midler, Cher, Donna Summer..they have all been supported for a number of years by their gay/lesbian fans, and don't you think they dont' know that. They most obviously DO, and that's why those performers continue to support OUR community. Also, in order to make it in dance/techno music, you must appeal to the gay male community. Publicity like this in the Advocate,which is one of the most popular publications among us in the gay/lesbian world, is NOT good if Ivan wishes to succeed, especially in the United States.
<And why must Tatu be served to the public as underage, porn-quality
Lolitas? What are they really selling?>
Another legitimate question Mr. Frick raises.WHY do they have to be served as Lolita type "sexpots"? Now,don't get me wrong, I understand why their image is the way it is, but as a lesbian, I resent having images of lesbian sexuality served up with a healthy dose of Brittany Spears/Christina Agulera type marketing. If they really wish to help gay/lesbian/bi teenagers, they dont' need to do the sex kitten thing. Just present Lena and Yulia as they are, without the sexing up.
<With no clear answers, it all feels like a big,
mechanical game. And it?s a game that leaves queer listeners?particularly kids starving
for empathetic music and artists?on the losing end. >
Now, here's another reason the gay press is so cynical. I know many young gay men and lesbians who have been starving for 'pop' idols that they could identify with. Now, it looks like they have them-but do they? Since both Lena and Yulia choose to play up the ambiguity instead of getting honest, they do themselves a big disservice in the gay community.
Instead of getting pissed at Mr. Frick, LISTEN to him. He brings up some damn good points.
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 9:27 pm
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It is a fair question to ask why Tatu is served up as a Lolita type "sexpots," but they are far from unique in that respect. Is there any doubt that all young women in pop are marketed with a heavy dose of sexuality? Did Britany have breast implants? Is she still a virgin? Then there is her very Tatu like school girl outfit in that one video (Hit Me Baby One More Time?). Aguilera is much the same. Brooke Shields was 15 when she starred in Blue Lagoon.

I'm cynical enough to assume that all advertising has some degree of falsehood.
PostMon Jul 28, 2003 11:06 pm
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Post subject: Re: Really?! Reply with quote
freddie wrote:
beaner1111 wrote:
I've seen a lot of things done by the industry but I have to admit this is pretty much the worst I've ever seen.

I can't believe that people actually accept that a rock band that's going to influence a whole generation of youg people comes out and basically shows that messing around with your sexual identity at 16 or 17 really isn't a serious thing.I have a really hard time understanding how a record lable could be so greedy as to think it's a good thing to mess with kids heads like this. Doesn't someone understand that playing at being gai or lesbian when your that young, because someone thinks it's fun, can seriously mess you up for the rest of your like.

If the band is serious about music and themselfs, don't they understand that the industry is just using them by dressing them as schoolgirls and urging them to make out on stage to sell sex to borderline pedofiles and hormone filled teanage boys. You actually think posting pictures and videos of 2 girls kissing and groping eachother grabs the attention of music listeners.

And everyone's freaking OKAY with that!!!???
What the hell is wrong with everybody!?


This is quite presuptious. You automaticaly asume that Tatu is all about the money and greed, meant to stir up sexual senses of teenage boys. Maybe your opinios would change if you'd see things less superficialy then that.

Presuming weather tatu are real or fake is everyone's own business, but there are some facts that you can't overlook: whatever they might be tatu are NOT just about sex (god forbid paedophilia). People who see them like this must be real narrow-minded. There is so much behind that basic level of two girls who love eachother. You just have to know where to look for it.

And their fans are not mostly teenage boys (for something like this Ivan should choose two completely different girls)... First of all there are many teenage girl fans who adore them simply as stars they are - not much to do with the sexual content of the band. But as a matter of fact I think Tatu have also a very established non teen fan base (at least compared to other "pop" bands - that's right, they're a POP band, not a rock band as you claim)...and I think that they see them as all the things you fail them to see - as a message of love, tolerace and respect to differences in people, but also as a wonderful love story.

I seriously doubt it will mess up the kids if they see two girls kissing. There are many worse things on TV and in our society that can mess them up A LOT more then that. But that's just a fist in the air in the land of hypocracy isn't it? Wink




i agree wit you.. plz ppl... .. tatu didn't force ppl to listen or wat ever ppl are drawn to the song themselves
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 11:27 pm
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Post subject: Agreed, BUT.... Reply with quote
<It is a fair question to ask why Tatu is served up as a Lolita type "sexpots," but they are far from unique in that respect. Is there any doubt that all young women in pop are marketed with a heavy dose of sexuality? Did Britany have breast implants? Is she still a virgin? Then there is her very Tatu like school girl outfit in that one video (Hit Me Baby One More Time?). Aguilera is much the same. Brooke Shields was 15 when she starred in Blue Lagoon.>
Yeah, but Brittany wasn't talking about telling other heterosexual kids that they aren't alone, either. TATU has most definatly made that aspect of their image a prominant part of their act. I've seen more than one interview where Lena, Yulia or both of them have said that they want to help other gay/bi kids deal with their sexuality through their music.
Unfortunatly, the trend is that young women in pop ARE marketed with a heavy dose of sexuality, and rather demeaning sexuality at that. I STILL resent the "selling" of TATU using that over done and overrated form of 'marketing'. It doesn't work. People are sick and tired of seeing Brittany, Pink, Christina, etc. shake their cabooses at the camera. As for Brooke Shields,yeah she was marketed with that 'lolita' crap and it took her years to shed that label before she was considered a serious actress-and some people STILL don't think she's serious.

<I'm cynical enough to assume that all advertising has some degree of falsehood.>
Yeah, it does. But this is not advertising. This is MUSIC-and in music you also must have some degree of honesty in order for the music to be taken seriously. Also,the ambiguity may fly in Europe, but they are now dealing with an American audience-and we Americans do NOT like being lied to. Remember Milli Vanilli? Those guys are still considered a fucking joke to most US music fans 12 years after they were discovered lypsynching. If they really wish to succeed in the US music market, TATU's going to have to get honest-and fast.

PS: For those of you who wish to send the Advocate a letter rebutting the article-and YES, I do disagree with it for the most part, here's the email address for the Advocate: letters@advocate.com
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 11:45 pm
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Post subject: We have to be realistic Reply with quote
Dear people that read this,
We have to be realistic, cause you can well see that people around us don't aproove tATu, not as a group and surely not as idols. They will always crytisize them for not being a good example and for provoking young people to thinking different than the masses, but let's be honest the masses buy cd's and we have nothing to do but support the masses in believing that there is a good part to tATu and not a bad one. Tard
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PostMon Aug 04, 2003 6:56 am
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@ Doc Marten :
Thank you for your insightfull posts. Smile
You suggest that the t.A.T.u. girls should be virtuous girls to better support the homosexual cause. They should act normal and in love on stage without acting to too explicitely sexual in public, without launching outrageous rumours and admit that they are couple. That would probably be more helpful for the gay community as they would get more respect and be taken more seriously. But they would probably be less popular and thus less known. Their primary objective is presumbably to be successful singers and supporting gays comes only second (or third or whatever). And maybe that increased popularity more than compensates for their lack of good manners. The homosexual cause does not benefit from lesbian singers that no one ever heard about. In addition they may not even be a couple, so in that case being honest about it from the start wouldn’t help either. You can argue that their marketing strategy can be improved, but that’s another issue. Wink
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PostMon Aug 04, 2003 4:10 pm
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Post subject: well... Reply with quote
I guess you are right but all the publicity and people fucking with their lives and the unknown questions wil probably tear them apart, as i can guess you have already heard the rumors. To keep being tATu they have to come up with something new everyday so that they can continue the tATu way of shocking people. What they used was something like a BLITZKRIEG : come quick, take evrybody by storm and conquer all the public, what they already did. The normal ending for this kind f strategy is either calming down and not being noticed for a while or continuing to shock, which would be very hard. I guess that i've noticed that the most important thing for them is their work because if it woudn't be this important they would have stopped singing in the moment they realised that their relationship is falling apart, thus they're either not in love( just good friends), afirmation which you will not aproove or they don't love each other that much which you mai aproove.
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PostTue Aug 05, 2003 3:44 am
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